CARRIGALINE CASTLE: DETERIORATING BEFORE OUR EYES

Carrigaline Castle In The Past: The Castle and original village about 1300 under the De Cogans

       

CARRIGALINE CASTLE TODAY

CARRIGALINE CASTLE IN THE PRESENT

Carrigaline Castle

by Dr. Hiram Morgan, Department of History, University College Cork           

Carrigaline  Castle is on the site – Carraig Uí Leighin – from which Carrigaline takes its name.

It links us with the Normans, the Fitzgeralds of Desmond, the Plantations and with America. Carrigaline Castle was established by the Normans, and it and the original village were developed by the De Cogans during the Middle Ages. In 1438 it was acquired by the Earls of Desmond and a century later was leased to the Fitzmaurice branch of the family.

In 1568 it was given to Warham St.Leger the first English planter inMunster. As a result James FitzMaurice Fitzgerald led the province in the first major Catholic rebellion against the Tudors. Lord Deputy Sidney came to Cork and besieged and garrisoned the castle. When James Fitzmaurice did not get his lands back after submission, he left for the continent to plot further revolt and with the Pope’s help returned to Dingle to a tragic end in 1579.

In 1613 the St Legers sold out to Daniel Gookin from Kent. Shortly after Gookin became involved with Captain William Newce, a soldier who had already established Newcestown, near Bandon, in a colonisation scheme in Virginia. Newce died soon after arriving in Americain 1621 and it was Gookin who completed the establishment of Newport Newsthere.  When Newport  News celebrates its founding in ten years time, it  would be great if Carrigaline could play a role.

Carrigaline Castle was vacated in the 17th century and the village moved in the 18th century to the bridge crossing over the Owenabue river. Over the years the castle has been dilapidated by local farmers for building material; in 1986 a whole section of it suffered a major collapse; there are now trees and branches growing through its remaining walls. If these aren’t removed and the castle conserved, all of it will fall down.

It is a matter of urgency that this important piece of local heritage is saved. In doing so a new amenity will be made for the whole community.

CARRIGALINE CASTLE IN THE PAST

Carrigaline Castle at its greatest extent in 1569 under the Fitzgeralds of Desmond

CARRIGALINE CASTLE TODAY

CARRIGALINE CASTLE IN THE PRESENT

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28 Responses “CARRIGALINE CASTLE: DETERIORATING BEFORE OUR EYES” →
  1. I live in carrigaline and would love to metal detect the ground around the castle

    Reply
    • hi Rob,

      the following web reference http://www.museum.ie/en/list/metal detecting-law (info pasted below) will give you all the information you require, why metal detecting is illegal on Irish archaeological sites etc, including Carrigaline Castle. In this information, the curator of antiquities, ned kelly, is mentioned; you could contact him, and ask him if there is ever a need for your assistance, as there is in britain with metal detecting clubs; it may well be negative, but no harm in asking:
      The Duty Officer,
      Irish Antiquities Division,
      National Museum of Ireland,
      Kildare Street,
      Dublin 2.
      01-6777444
      antiquitiesdo@museum.ie


      The Law on Metal Detecting in Ireland

      The National Monuments Acts 1930 to 2004 provide for the protection of the archaeological heritage of Ireland (portable and built heritage) with the National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 1987 dealing specifically with the use of metal detecting devices.

      • Other than under licence, it is illegal to use a metal detecting device to search for archaeological objects in Ireland, both on land and underwater.

      • The term ‘archaeological object’ is a legal one that has a wide meaning and may include lost or concealed cultural objects, including common objects such as coins and objects of relatively modern date including 20th century material.

      (This latter point with regard to dating of archaeological objects has been ruled upon in a High Court Judicial Review – Record No 2001 579JR, between S. Gregg Bemis (Applicant) and the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Ireland and the Attorney General (Respondents). Judgement of Mr Justice Herbert delivered the 17th day of June, 2005).

      • If you find an archaeological object you must report it the National Museum of Ireland or to a Designated County Museum within 96 hours.

      • Failure to report such a discovery is an offense.

      • Where a person reports the finding of an archaeological object he shall be furnished with a prescribed form and in reporting the find he shall state his name and address, the nature and character of the object found, and a description of the location of the place where the object was found.

      • It is illegal to be in possession of an unreported archaeological object or to sell or otherwise dispose of such an object.

      • Archaeological objects found in Ireland are State property.

      • Finders who have found archaeological objects in a legitimate manner are paid finder’s rewards.

      • It is public policy not to issue metal detecting consents other than in the context of licensed archaeological excavations or investigations being undertaken under the direction of a professional archaeologist.

      • Unlicensed detectorists who engage in general searches for archaeological objects run the risk of prosecution and the law provides for heavy fines and / or imprisonment of offenders. A number of successful prosecutions have been taken against individuals who have been found to have contravened this legislation.

      • Unauthorised devices found on or in the vicinity of certain monuments may be seized and detained by a member of An Garda Síochána pending prosecution by the State.

      • The 1994 act saw an increase in imprisonment to 5 years on indictment and the maximum fine allowed is €63,500.

      • It has been suggested on some occasions that metal detector searches for archaeological objects on beaches may be undertaken without a consent under the terms of the National Monuments Acts. This is not the case and In fact, such areas are particularly sensitive archaeologically as they can often be locations of important material relating to kitchen middens, burials, settlements and ship wrecks. At least one successful prosecution has been obtained against a person engaged in searching a beach with the aid of a metal detector.

      All of the relevant legislation can be accessed online http://www.irishstatutebook.ie and include the following:

      The National Monuments Act, 1930

      The National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 1954.

      The National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 1987.

      The National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 1994.

      The National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 2004

      Further reading:

      Eamonn P. Kelly, ‘Treasure hunting in Ireland – its rise and fall’, Antiquity, Vol. 67, No. 255, June, 1993, 378-381.

      Eamonn P. Kelly, ‘Protecting Ireland’s Archaeological Heritage’, International Journal of Cultural Property, no. 2, vol. 3, 1994.

      Eamonn P. Kelly, ‘Protecting Ireland’s Archaeological Heritage’, Antiquities Trade or Betrayed: Legal, Ethical and Conservation Issues, Ed. K.W. Tubb, London, 1995.

      If you wish to report the discovery of an archaeological object or if you require further information please contact:

      The Duty Officer,

      Irish Antiquities Division,

      National Museum of Ireland,

      Kildare Street,

      Dublin 2.

      01-6777444

      antiquitiesdo@museum.ie

      Reply
    • Metal detecting in Ireland is a serious crime.what caused this problem around the 1980s was person with metal detector went into persons land never asked permission of the land owner and found gold chalices and then a big court case over it atrocities in Ireland clamped down on metal detecting

      Reply
      • This is nothing more than lies you need to get your facts right before you make such a statement.
        I quote the judge in the case maybe you should look into the facts first it’s clear his ref is about the NMI.

        QUOTE
        There can be no doubt that the plaintiffs in this case behaved extremely responsibly once they found these objects and that their conduct subsequent to the finding of them, both in the discretion with which they approached the Museum and the expedition with which they did so, and in the very active co-operation which they subsequently gave to the officials of the Museum concerning the find, was exemplary.

        QUOTE
        Whatever criticism may be made of the plaintiffs in the use of metal detectors or for the fact that they dug below the surface in order to retrieve the Hoard, their subsequent conduct and attitude has been entirely praiseworthy; I would wish that I could say the same of those responsible for the assessing of the offer of £10,000 made to the plaintiffs, when the owners of the land ignorant of the existence of the treasure until found by the plaintiff and who had done nothing whatever save own the land, were each paid the sum of £25,000 from the same source.


  2. onlyrob

    April 30, 2013

    Thanks for the reply,i know all of the above already and thats why i have not metal detected the site.I only metal detect on the beach,as for off the beach you need a licence and something i will never have so i can just dream on and let all that history rot in the ground

    Reply
    • hi Rob

      do contact the National Museum and ask them if there will ever be a need for your assistance in collaboration with archaeologists.

      Reply
  3. Hello Dr. Morgan,

    Thank you very much for sharing this information. I’m actually studying Daniel Gookin as a part of my dissertation and your work has been extremely helpful. I was in Ireland last week and traveled to Carrigaline myself to find the castle. While I had hoped that there would be some signs for the castle I couldn’t find any and many of the locals were not familiar with the site as Carrigaline Castle but instead called it “the rock.” I did eventually find the castle with the help of your map although it was very overgrown and I wasn’t able to take as clear pictures as the ones that you have on your blog. Would it be possible to email you, I would love to learn more about your archaeological finds related to the Gookin family?

    Reply
    • Dr. Morgan will contact you.

      Reply

    • Pete Gookin

      September 26, 2015

      Rachel,
      Daniel Gookin is my 8th Great Grandfather an I’d interested in reading what you have learned about him. Is your information available digitally?
      Thank You, Pete Gookin

      Reply

  4. Linda Gookin

    October 23, 2013

    Dr. Morgan – I read with fascination about the Carragaline Castle. Daniel Gookin is my husband’s 7th great grandfather. Our son and his family visited the site several weeks ago hoping to see remnants of the castle. All they found were brambles, so many that the ruins, if any, could not be seen. At least he got a picture of his sons standing at the site.
    As a family we are interested in additional history about the castle and about Daniel Gookin. Can you direct me to any literature that would give us more information. We live in California so we cannot visit the library in Ireland, at least not now. Though, I must say, one of my grandsons will probably return for a visit. The whole family loved Ireland.
    Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
    Sincerely,
    Linda Gookin

    Reply
  5. Dr Morgan, I am confused between this ruin of Carrigaline Castle and one called Coolmore Castle built by the De Cogans in the 12th century where they lived for several centuries. From the Act of Settlement these land passed to my ancestor William Hodder, Mayor of Cork in 1657. Apparently it is on the Downe Survey Map of 1657. My main source is “The Sporting Shamrocks & Ringaskiddy” by Sean O’Mahony (2002) in which he states: When William Hodder took up residence at Coolmore, he must have occupied the castle following the departure of Philip deCogan. He also states that William’s son-in-law John Newenham (Mayor of Cork 1671) bought Coolmore, and their son Thomas Newenhan built Coolmore House in 1671. “It is possible that the old deCogan Castle was demolished about the same time and the stone was used to build the new house. This would account for their being no ruin of the castle, nor any reference to a ruin in the 1811 or 1841 maps.” So since there is a partial ruin of Carrigaline Castle I have suddenly realised from reading your blog here, that these two Castles may not be one and the same? Although you do seem to indicate that Carrigaline Castle was “developed’ by the DeCogans. Also you mention that Carrigaline Castle was vacated in the 17th century. Do you mean vacated by the DeCogans, to be then occupied by Wiliam Hodder in about 1657? I would be pleased to hear your opinion on this. I am anxious to establish where exactly William Hodder and his wife Margery nee MacCarthy were actually living in about 1657. Was it Carrigaline Castle or another one? That they were living at Coolmore at the time is evidenced by the fact that Margery Hodder presented a silver chalice to the Carrigaline parish in 1670. The inscription reads: “The gift of Margery Hodder, relict of William Hodder, of the citty of Corke, Alderman. To the use of the Parish of Carrigaline. Anno Dom 1679.” This chalice is still owned by the Carrigaline Parish and stands as about the only evidence I can find that this was where they were living. Would be so pleased if you can help.

    Kae Lewis kaelewis1@gmail.com
    http://www.corkrecords.com

    Reply
    • Dear Kae,

      Thanks for your message – surely there has been some confusion here between Coolmore House, the Newenham’s Georgian House overlooking the estuary and the medieval Carrigaline Castle which is about 2 miles further up the inlet. The De Cogans would have owned all that land – maybe there was a earlier structure on what is now the site of the 18th-century pile.

      With best wishes,
      Hiram Morgan

      Reply
  6. Dear Kae, let me shed some light on this. Coolmore Castle

    Caulfield mentions Coolmore Castle or Coolmore Tower, a small square tower on a hill top overlooking Drake’s Pool on the northern side of the Owenabue river. He states it was build by the FitzGeralds. Dr. Caulfield ascribes in the same paper the building of Aghamarta to Robert FitzStephen but as all these lands belonged to Milo de Cogan, it is impossible FitzStephen would have erected a castle on his friend’s property. (Caulfield 1879) (Caulfield 1876)
    According to local legend, Sir Francis Drake sailed up the River Owenabue in 1589 with five ships, while hiding from a superior Spanish force.
    Rather than sailing further into the harbour, Drake decided to round the point in Crosshaven and sail up the Owenabue. Under Coolmore castle the rivers widens and forms a wide, open bay, hidden from views from Cork harbour by Currabinny Hill. The Spanish force followed Drake into Cork harbour, but unfamiliar with the harbour, sailed past the mouth of the Owenabue, and gave up the search after they could not locate Drake’s force.
    The story also details that Sir Francis Drake called into Aghamarta Castle, was well received and was able to reprovision his ships. Johanna Nugent died in 1594 and her heir John Fitz Redmond Nugent, also loyal to the crown, apparently brought the news to Sir Francis Drake. In return for the courtesies shown to him Drake planted a tree.
    As you said the lands of the Cogans passed on to the Hodders in the Acts of Settlement and de Cogans continued to live at Barnahely and Ballea Castle. Ballea Castle, Carrigaline Castle, the Norman Keep at Coolmore, Hodderfield and Aghamarta Castle all were handed to the Hodders and the Norman Keep at Coolmore is now just a ruin. Very little survives. When people refer to Coolmore they usually refer to the large Newenham mansion. The tower is still visible though.

    Reply
  7. I am amazed abou the amount of armchair lawyers we see on the internet posting in topics just like this one.
    The law on metal detecting is open to interpretation that is why legal people train to do the job they do.
    Would you take the advice of a farmer on your medical needs? I doubt it very much if you need legal advice get it from the horeses mouth.
    Remove the words archaeological object from any of the debates you see around the internet and you will see the quoted law fall flat.
    The responsable metal detectorists who detect within the law should never need to worry their head about detecting and just enjoy it.
    Like all hobbies there are some no no things you should never do like search for archaeological objects or detect near or around archaeological sites or monuments.
    Please remember most protected sites are marked on databases / maps that can be found on a number of sites around the internet.
    What your intentions are when you set off to metal detect are important to this end i have with me at all times a membership card.
    That membership states clearly that i am not searching for archaeological objects and that i also understand the law should i happen upon any archaeological object.

    Archaeologists hate to think of those outside their own circle exposing them and proving there is a better way.
    The protectionism of the playground of the elite in our society must be broken and open to the public albeit in a structured manner.
    The innuendos and intimidation the scaremongering and misleading the public must stop if ever trust and progress are to be made.

    Frank

    Reply
  8. hi Frank,

    Many thanks for your comments.

    I found some further information on the subject, that the reader might like to view from http://irishmetaldetecting.webs.com

    WELCOME TO IRISH METAL DETECTING

    ‘If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbours. There is no other’.

    There are many reasons that people start metal detecting.
    Some because they have retired or just want to improve their health.
    Maybe you just have a passion for history.
    There are so many great benefits from the hobby, you will learn more about history, coins, artefacts, farming, soil conditions, and the land than ever before.
    You will keep fit and healthy, loose weight, gain friends, enjoy the countryside, go places you may never have gone, find things and discover things you may never have found.
    Problems will just seem to disappear when you are roaming around the countryside with your metal detector and when your detector discovers a buried target, well the feeling is heart stopping (Until you discover it’s a ring pull or beer can).
    You can easily get away from everyone and everything if you want solitude, or you can meet new people to join you for company.
    Getting out in to the countryside, breathing in fresh air, walking and the digging is also a great form of exercise.
    Plus, bending down to dig up a target is an excellent way to trim your waistline.
    Many People with Diabetes and other disorders have said taking up metal detecting has changed their lives for the better.

    Please enjoy our forum where you will meet other like minded people.

    Reply
  9. Hi, I’m from Carrigaline. I have a strange question for the Archaeologists on here. About 3/4 of a mile west of Carrigaline castle and 1/4 mile north of Waterpark house was the old “Coffin House.” As kids we used to go drinking on top of it. But I’ve often wandered what it was and why it had such a strange name. It was located roughly next to where St Mary’s Church of Ireland school is now. It was a small building. About 15-20 feet long and only 5-6 feet wide. It had a rounded arched roof. It was perfectly rounded and concrete. Perfect for us to sit on top of. The building itself was of stone and was in disrepair…the rounded roof was strongest part. It had what seemed like a small stone storage structure about four feet hugh attached on the right hand side. I thought it might have been the remains of an old hedge school as it would have been in the middle of nowhere in it’s time. But why the name Coffin house….local kids made up stories that it was used as a funeral parlor but it was tiny and a good mile and a half from Carrigaline. I also thought of a Stable but the farmhouses nearby had their own. Any thoughts? An old Tomb? A Folly? I’d love for you to take a guess. It’s gone now. Knocked and houses put up there.

    Reply
    • Been a couple of years since this was asked, but anyway. i remember that old structure. It was built into the north\northeast east wall of the old Atkins\waterpark estate. Looking at old maps of the area that show the estate, at least one shows an outline of the structure, but doesnt explain what it is.
      The map its on is from the 1800s, so its old, but i feel the roofs concrete was probably added at a later date. I remember on the inside there were rectangular holes in the walls opposite one another, almost like slats were in place for storage. The biggest oddity for me was the tiny attached stone building, no bigger than a couple of feet, complete with arched roof.

      But as for what it is? Perhaps a folly, one of the Atkins tombs from the estate (at least one died on the estate grounds from a horse fall), maybe even a sweathouse. Perhaps a detailed record of the old waterpark estate might mention it, if one can be found.

      As the OP states though, its long gone.

      Reply

      • Eoghain

        June 3, 2016

        Hi Al, A serious thank you for thinking of this. We used to call it the Coffin House. Perhaps the name lived in the folk memory and it was a tomb. Who knows. By the time the late eighties early nineties came round we were using it to go under age drinking. The back of the building had degraded and there was a large hole where the masonry had fallen away. I rem those slats you mention as well. I rem someone saying that was for the storage of the coffins…kids telling tales I suppose. Anyway it is indeed long gone. It was a very curious building and sometimes I wondered if it was some sort of hedge school. I guess the next thing to do is look for a record of Waterpark house. Thanks for getting back.

  10. Sorry it was this shape but more rounded on top.

    Reply
  11. Oh and it was about 12-15 feet high?

    Reply
    • hi Eoghain

      many thanks for your comments; I will get back to you asap regarding your query

      Reply
      • hi Eoghain

        I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT PARTICULAR PLACE IN CARRIGALINE. PERHAPS SOMEONE READING THIS BLOG MIGHT KNOW?
        YOU MAY BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING ABOUT THE MEDIEVAL CHURCH AND GRAVEYARD, WEST OF CARRIGALINE AND JUST EAST OF BALLYGARVAN. IT IS
        KILLINGLEY, IN KILANULLY TOWNLAND. THE MODERN CEMETERY IS AN EXTENSION TO THE HISTORIC ONE. THERE ARE 19TH CENTURY AND EARLIER ALTERATIONS TO THE CHURCH. ONE OF THESE IS A POSSIBLE WATCH HOUSE, WHERE A WATCHMAN WOULD HAVE LIVED. HE WOULD HAVE KEPT A WATCH OVER THE CORPSE AWAITNG BURIAL, AND AFTER BURIAL. THE FAMILY OF THE DEAD ALSO HELPED AND SOMETIMES CAGES WERE ERECTED OVER THE BURIAL PLOT. WATCH HOUSES ARE ALSO LOCATED IN OTHER GRAVEYARDS NOT FAR FROM CORK CITY, WHERE THERE WAS A DEMAND FOR CADAVERS FOR THE INCREASED NUMBER OF MEDICAL SCHOOLS. THE COST OF A FRESH CADAVER WAS HIGH. GRAVE ROBBERS WERE COMMON IN THIS LUCRATIVE BUSINESS, WHICH THE AUTHORITIES OFTEN IGNORED. HUNDREDS OF BODIES WERE OFTEN REQUIRED ANNUALLY, SO THE NUMBERS PROVIDED BY THE COURT SYSTEM AT THE TIME WAS AT AN ALL TIME LOW. WITH THE CHANGE IN LEGISLATION IN THE 1830S, A LICENCE WAS NECESSARY. THE BODIES OF CRIMINALS ASSIGNED TO EXECUTION WERE NOW THE FEW WHICH WERE PROVIDED FOR THE MEDICAL SCHOOLS FOR DISSECTION ETC.
        IN GLASNEVIN CEMETERY, DUBLIN THERE WERE WATCH TOWERS AND BLOODHOUNDS TO WATCH OVER THE NEW BURIALS.


  12. David Gookin

    March 29, 2015

    I am visiting Cork in May,
    Perhaps I should put a visit to Carrigaline on
    my things to do list.Nice to know the family had such good taste in real estate.

    Reply

  13. Lar Moran

    March 5, 2016

    Hi is there some reason why there isn’t any archaeological research done on the area. Including this castle there is also examples of lios settlements and an earth work located on bothar glas near Ballea Road. I really enjoyed this article and am delighted that someone has shown an interest in something I am keenly interested.

    Reply
    • DR. HIRAM MORGAN HAS CARRIED OUT RESEARCH ON THE CASTLE, AS HAVE OTHER LOCAL HISTORIANS OVER THE YEARS, AS HAS RESEARCH ON OTHER SITES. IT IS ALSO RECORDED IN THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVENTORIES OF COUNTY CORK.
      THE CASTLE WOULD NEED SOME CONSERVATION BEFORE ARCHAEOLOGICAL WORK WAS CARRIED OUT. IT IS PROBABLY UNSAFE IN PARTS. A LOT OF MONEY WOULD BE NEEDED. THAT COULD DO A GREAT SERVICE TO THE LOCAL TOURIST BUSINESS.

      Reply

  14. gary harrington

    March 21, 2017

    Hi Im looking to find out about the standing stones which run through carrigaline ,what are there location ,as im building on a site and was told i could have trouble because these stones are in the area .

    Reply
    • you can do one of the following: email me a copy of your site in relation to your proposed building, or you can contact the planning/heritage department of your local council office.

      Reply

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